On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

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On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:18 am

Ok, so there is a big diskussion on BGG about the sense of exclusivity on Kickstarter.

I'm a littletorn on this topic. On the one hand, exclusivity is a nice reward for the backers, on the other hand it can limit the possibilities of the creators for making the game more interesting in the long run.

The main problem seems to be the exclusivity of the advanced characters, which by desgin are also not usable as single card promos. Had there been a poll during the KS campaign, i had voted to not make those heroes and dungeon lords exclusive.

Now my question is: is there any way to make the advanced characters available without getting in conflict with their exclusiveness? I mean, there was a lot of time invested in them to balance them out, and for every new expansion of Fallen they also have to be considered.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by WTG - Tom Green on Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:44 am

Well there's no one who would like the advanced characters available to everyone more than myself. We didn't just slap together some quick KS exclusives and call it good. We actually put a lot of time into designing the characters, redesigning them, sometimes re-redesigning them, and balancing the heck out of them.

There are two issues that immediately come to mind when talking about this. The first is that I remember an update way back when, where I discussed 4 or 5 really cool things at great length, something like we had approved the samples so now the game could be made, we added more goodies to the game, we increased the quality of the components in the game, just a bunch of fun stuff. At the end of the post was a small item where I mentioned we were moving 9 of the KS Final Battle cards from the KS into the Retail games so every Dungeon Lord has the same amount of Final Battle cards. It was by all accounts a very reasonable and fair thing to treat all our customers fairly and to increase the longevity of the game. Unfortunately more than a few backers ignored everything about the post except for the 2 sentences about the Final Battle cards, and they just exploded.

I can't believe you're breaking your promise! - You're taking our exclusive content from the KS game and just giving it away! - I would never have backed if I knew you would do this! - They're giving away all our exclusive content?! - I want a refund! - If this is how you do business, I'll never back a game of yours again. - .....and so on. And this was just over 9 cards out of the 200+ extra cards, + characters, + 50 story cards, + other goodies....and it was also after we'd put months of dedicated time into running the best and most supportive KS campaign we had ever seen. None of that mattered. People just erupted. Again, it was a very reasonable adjustment that did not impact anyone's game, but it just blew up. Very surprising.

So regarding this issue, we have two types of backers who've supported us. There are those who are more laid back who don't care if any exclusive content is made available and might even prefer if the content was out there to help make the game even more successful. They tend to be a soft-spoken group who might occasionally comment "Hey these new characters are fun. I want everyone to have access to these." Then there's the other type of backer who holds the exclusiveness of their content very dearly. They feel that the content belongs to their game and if you missed out on the campaign, well that's too bad for you, but they will be damned if they are going to share it. The uniqueness of the content is a very important part of their value to the game and their impression of Watchtower Games for them. They also tend to be a very vocal group.

The other larger issue to keep in mind is that even if the advanced characters were magically made available today to the retail customers, there would still be completionists demanding more of the KS exclusives and "threatening" to take their money elsewhere. Oh, the characters are now available? Well, what about the KS story cards? Without those my game is incomplete. I'm not spending my money unless I get the full game. Oh, the story cards are now available? Well, what about bonus treasures and omens? I'm not spending my money unless I get the full game. Oh, all the stretch goals are available? Well I'm not buying this game unless those 4 Adventure Packs are available. I want the full game. And this is not just a guess on my part, we actually saw this during the KS campaign back in 2013. People would log into BGG complaining that the 4 APs were too expensive, so they were not going to buy them, which meant they were not getting the "full game", which means they wouldn't even buy the KS game. Now I'm not agreeing or supporting this view in any way, but these old posts are still there. So no matter what steps we take, there will always be someone complaining that they are not getting the "full game".

Would I love for the advanced characters to be available to everyone as a separate expansion or something similar? Sure. Would I love for all the work we put into the 50 extra Story cards to be available to retail customers? Sure. Would making the Retail customer pay more for an expansion like this to get the same KS game be fair? Undoubtedly there would be people who would complain about this, but it sounds fair for not committing early to the KS campaign like our backers did. But I can only imagine how many backers would be furious and feel betrayed, and that's not something we here at Watchtower Games are eager to do.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:19 am

Yeah, i get your point (could it be that i missed that update and the following uproar? Maybe i just blocked it out...).

So i hope you have some nice new expansion characters soon to quench the thirst for more advanced play, like "Forrest the Ranger" or "Adelle the Paladin", the "King of Leeches" or the "Slumbering Demoness" (i hope for some new female heroes and dungeon lords, so i don't have to hear "this is made for men, there are not enough female characters")

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Evilboy on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:51 am

So, I just registered now because this topic motivated me to reply (I've been guest reading for some time).

First, I LOVE this game...it's a very clever design filling in a gap in the current market. This is the kind of game that becomes one of the "hot releases" you see at GenCon, etc. where everyone seems to be carrying it around or is playing at a side table. I say all this because I think Fallen is a bit above the usual good games you see coming out of Kickstarter...this is an "A-Game" release like you'd expect more out of a big-name company (and it still has a high-8 review score on BGG, which is no mean feat).

Background on me, I did not support the Kickstarter, simply because I did not know about it until too late, which boggles my mind. Anyway, when it hit the hotness at BGG, I naturally wanted to check it out and immediately saw all the exclusives and the discussion thereof. It almost put me off at first, but then I read more on the game, put some thought into it, and purchased a KS copy from ebay for $90 shipped...to me, that was a good deal. I couldn't justify an average of $30 each for the Adventure Packs, but for the main game + the advanced content I figured this: If I saw the game on a retail shelf for $50, and an "advanced expansion" right next to it for another $40, it would have been an instant purchase right there, based on what I knew about the game, especially considering the "instant gratification" factor that the original backers did not have.

I know that Watchtower Games takes their backer opinions very seriously, and is quite grateful to them for the funding money so far in advance... I totally respect then wanting to maintain the good will with the exclusive content.

The adventure packs in particular I totally get: these were very clearly stated as content that would never be released ever again in the complete forms, and certainly not reprinted. Also, at $15 each they were a little pricey (relative to the main game), and many folks only paid that money because of that "only can get it now" thing. Relenting and releasing this content to retail would justifiably be an insult to these backers, especially if they were priced at a level that would be more palatable to the average gamer (or bundled into one expansion, for instance). I personally would probably be cheesed myself, and I'm not usually one to care much about exclusives.

The advanced content in the main game, though. I agree that there is enough in the retail release to make this a fun game. However, the KS content is more than just some extra story cards, treasures, etc....these are rules and characters that were tested and developed extensively, I wager even more than the base characters were. So much was added that a separate rulebook needed to be included in these copies of the game! I suspect that the full extent of all this extra content was perhaps not anticipated when first announcing the stretch goals. This is content that, while not making the game a lesser game without, still is significant (and, IMO, really cool) enough to need to be taken into account for future developments.

I think this content should be released as an expansion for retail. Certainly it should cost more to get than it was for the backers, both because of the original exclusivity for the funders of the gamer, and because Watchtower definitely should get a fair retail profit for the extra work.

Some backers will be upset. But, to paraphrase Tom above, there will always be people who are upset no matter how this is handled. I'm not saying a blind eye should be given to those people...I again totally respect those who funded the game a year+ before any return to their money was given...but at some point Tom and company need to do what best manages Watchtower Games and the Fallen brand. And I really think that they should seriously consider relenting and allowing the discount that the backers got on the massively-packed copy of the game they got fulfill the "exclusive" clause. Not because they want to twist the words to get the most profit out of a perhaps unanticipated success , but becasue in the end, for the long-term health of the game for all the folks they would like to get into Fallen going forward...it's the best call.

Just the opinion of an "outsider" who wants to see this great franchise succeed. Thanks for reading this long windy post.  Very Happy

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:48 am

As Tom said, the release of the KS characters for retail will not happen - and i understand him completely on that.

The next step would be creating some new advanced characters, similar enough to the KS characters to show newcomers that they also can have a full experience of the game, and at the same time different enough from them so KS backers still will want to have them for diversity.

With this in mind (and remembering the time invested into the KS characters), i guess it will take its time to have this problem solved, but i think it's doable. And in the meantime there are lots of gamers out there who don't follow KS and BGG and will have a blast with the retail version of Fallen.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Oli on Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:34 pm

That's the problem with early bonuses.

It helps you grow your initial fan-base quite a lot, but many players coming later feel left out.
For example if I see a new kickstarter and after a few hours later I can't get an early-bird offer (usually a few dollars off for the first backers) I refrain from backing all together. If there is no such option I do not feel that left out and back even after a few days in the campaign.

But on the other hand releasing the complete kickstarter expansion now may leave very bad press and it's very likely that another WTG-kickstarter might not take off because of this. Esp. if they try to add more exclusive stuff.
But as the game develops and more characters and story cards are added the kickstarter-goodies will not be that important for the average gamer any longer, and it surely will make another kickstarter even more successful if they stay true to their promises.

PS: I'm a backer with all 4 expansions and 2 playmats and have absolutely no problem with an "official" release of these "exclusives".

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by nigel on Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:29 am

It's a toughie - whatever you do some people are going to be annoyed. Don't reprint, annoy the people who missed the kickstarter but want it all, reprint and the backers (or people who bought it after at an inflated price) who are bothered about diluting their 'investment' get annoyed.

One thought I have is to alter the characters a bit - change the gender (and hence the art), alter the power card text and maybe adjust slightly some of them. So that way the kickstarter characters are exclusive, but everyone can access something similar. Of course some people still won't be happy - the must have it all crowd will still be missing the actual kickstarter exclusives, and some of the backers might feel the spirit of the 'never reprint policy' has been broken.

My view - do something to encourage people to buy the game. Maybe it would be better to work on more adventure packs, more core stories, more stuff in general and make it all retail. As there is more and more content available, and the replayability of both the retail and kickstarter versions goes up and up the 'missing' kickstarter only content becomes less of an issue (I hope).

Personally I don't mind if the kickstarter exclusive stuff is reprinted, as long as it isn't offered cheaper than the backers paid, as we took a risk and backed the project - but don't bundle it in with new content, as then backers will have to buy stuff they already have to get the new stuff.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by kwirick on Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:37 pm

I am one who went to a reseller and purchased at an inflated price. (it just came in today!)

I sent an email to Watchtower asking similar questions.. I guess I should've waited just a little longer instead of bothering them..

It took me 3 days to come to a decision and pull the trigger to spend 200% over what the original backer paid. Am I angry because of the pricing? No. I missed the kickstarter. I would've backed if i could, but c'est la vie. My only real regret is that the money went to a reseller instead of the developer.

I'll relate one little bit.. in the days leading up to my purchase, i did a lot of thinking. how could i better spend the money? was it really worth it? I can live without this, yes, of course. but gosh it sure is fun! i would go to bed wondering if i could really validate the amount I was thinking of spending... or should i just get the current retail version, but have half the content? I already said on which side i fell; after thinking about it for that much time i realized: If I was giving it that much attention, of course it was worth it.

For exclusive content, Ive been on both sides as a consumer. Generally i feel it hurts more then helps in the long run... I would like everyone to have the opportunity to play content the creator has worked so hard on... but I understand the 'need' for exclusives during a campaign. I understand the draw as a backer, and the mentality of the dev to value those backers and push new goals.

It is definitely a difficult dilemma, and I dont envy The Watchtower team for the questions they have to field, or decisions they must make. I do know they have really created something really spectacular with Fallen. I cant wait to see whats next!

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unclechawie on Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:57 am

I'm a kickstarter backer that opted for all the game content. I'm not concerned one bit if watchtower decided to release exclusive content and sell it if the market is there.

I do commend them for standing by their initial decision, however if that is what is keeping potential purchasers from supporting (ie buying) the game, then I say print expansions for general sale of the product. They can buy the base game and then the additional characters, story cards, etc. it'll just cost 'em extra.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by StormbringerGT on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:08 am

I ran a demo last night and this discussion came up.

Early backers should be rewarded, absolutely. However by them providing these kickstarter exclusives at a later date and a higher price it is a win win. The backers got a great deal on a ton of content and got it sooner (lol not always the case). And the people who just found out about the game who love it and are huge fans, hcan buy in to have the same access to all gameplay materials as the backers.

Backers love exclusive items and love to gloat, So in the future stick to alternate art style things. That way they have something unique to show off and gain whatever acceptance they need. And everyone has access to the same gameplay content, additionally generating further revenue for your company.

I've backed stuff in the past. I don't have an elitist attitude, I get my sense of fulfillment knowing I helped make a game of reality and that my fellow gamers will now also get a chance to play something great. I don;t need stuff that I know I flip on ebay later...

As mentioned you cant make everyone happy with whatever you decide. Don't confuse the loudest voices with the most numerous voices.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:35 am

The problem is that by defining the stuff as exclusive before the KS ended, it is not only a matter of "breaking one's word" but actually a defining trait of the material. So making the same things available through retail could be seen as removing said trait from the materials, such leading to legal problems (don't know how far things could go).

For future campaigns it's surely something to keep in mind - some minor exclusives (like the AO-APs) are not the real problem, only for completionists. But SGs that are given free with the game shouldn't be exclusive, especially the really extensive.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Don Riddle on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:59 pm

As a vocal backer, here's my thoughts: I would be upset if the KS exclusive characters were made available to all. As others have said, it's why I backed instead of waiting for retail. But the story cards should be released as an expansion; there's just so much work there that feels like a shame to keep from others; I think also that most backers would not have a problem with those being shared. The adventure packs are tricky. I was among those who REALLY wanted them, but could not afford them. I would love to get them now at a reasonable price, but I could see how backers who paid for them during the campaign would feel slighted.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:26 pm

I think the other way round would be the right thin, if any. The APs were sold as exclusive - people paid 150% of what the base game cost to get them. It would be wrong to make them now available for retail.

The advanced characters? Nobody paid extra for them. They were free stretch goals. And i guess there went much more work into them than into the story cards, as we were told that each hero had to be balanced against each dungeon lord.

Can it be that you'd rather make the story cards available than the characters because you have the characters but not the story cards?

In my opinion the Add-On adventure packs are the only thing that must stay exclusive, as people paid extra for their exclusivity.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Ratdz on Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:18 am

I registered to reply to this topic as well.
I missed the kickstarter, but found someone to let me "buy in" with them through the kickstarter. I bought the game with all four adventure packs.
I really feel that the way the kickstarter was run, the adventure packs should probably stay exclusive. That doesn't mean you can't come up with different adventure packs in the future though.
I think the other content in the game, like characters, story cards, etc. should be made available to others of the base game as an add-on/expansion. I didn't feel that the extra content in the kickstarter was that "exclusive", but I did feel that the adventure packs were. That was the only reason I bought the adventure packs, was because I didn't think I'd be able to get them again.
I haven't even opened them up, and probably won't until I get through the rest of the game.
Others are correct, there is no way that you will please everyone. At some point, you are going to do what is best for Watchtower games. Whatever that may be. Good luck, and Great game!!

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Aztra on Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:57 am

This game looks amazing, but it's too bad I have to seek out a reseller to get the current available content.  I will not buy retail even though I would much rather give my money to Watchtower.  Not putting the kickstarter content out as an expansion is a mistake. Balance keeping a vocal and probable minority of kickstarter backers happy vrs all retail customers.  There were around 1300 total backers and how many retail customers if this game explodes?  

I read the kickstarter.  The KS content are stretch goals and there were no exclusive banners on them.  The adventure packs clearly stated they are kickstarter exclusives and fair is fair they should stay that way.  Let's not forget another KS exclusive that seems to be lost in the shuffle: price.  The KS was $40 for all that content.  The retail is $49 and an expansion would be fairly priced at $35-45.  So we are talking an extra 35-45 that the backers didn't have to pay for the same content.  I would call that an exclusive deal that I would of been very happy with.

That extra $35-45 would be going directly into Watchtowers pockets and not a reseller.  Remember, this content is already balanced and produced and it's insane to not release it to the general public.   It would only make the game more successful.  A more successful game = more support and future expansions.

Again, as a potential new customer, I would be more then happy to buy the game here with an expansion.  I would not hesitate to drop close to $100 on the game.  Too bad the money wouldn't go to the game developers and that's sad.  I'll keep an eye on here to see if things change and Watchtower decides to release the KS content as an expansion.  Unfortunately, I can't wait forever since there is only 1300 backers and extra copies may dry up fast.  

Make the right long term business decision Watchtower.  Kickstarter backers that would complain about that do not have your best interest at heart.

Also, quick question. Are the dice the same in both versions? I ask because the dice were a stretch goal listed just like all the rest of that content. I don't hear anyone complaining that the upgraded dice are added into the retail version....

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:05 am

Actually, if you read the header for the stretchgoals, there is written:

"With your support, additional funding will unlock stretch goals to add even more to your game. All stretch goal content is exclusive to Kickstarter and will NOT be available at retail unless otherwise noted."

The only Stretchgoal explicitely except from the exclusivity were the engraved dice (and the work on the multiplayer, as it is nothing to make exclusive). WTG had problems with people just because the 3 additional Final Battle Cards for each DL were not except from the exclusivity but are to be found in the retail version of the game.

It is not a mistake that they don't make the KS content available for retail - they promised this content to be exclusive and are sticking to their word. You could argue that it was a mistake to declare all the stretchgoals as exclusive in the first place though. But it's too late to alter that now.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Aztra on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:14 am

Yup, your right I missed the header.  Wow, watchtower shot themselves in the foot with that one.  I still can't believe most backers wouldn't understand if they released it since it would only help the game.  Hobby board game customers know and usually research games ahead of time they are usually not impulse buys.   I'm sure I won't be the only one either looking for a reseller or not buying it.  Why pay more money for half a game because I missed out on a few week window?  

So call the heroes another name and name the story cards something different and release them.  All that extra content made and balanced  for 1300 customers and now cannot be released.   What a waste.  Hopefully, they will learn their lesson if they ever put any expansions or another different game on kickstarter

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Ratdz on Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:27 am

What if Watchtower started a second Kickstarter for the 2nd printing of Fallen, and offered the same exclusives? They would then not be going back on their word of making it available outside of Kickstarter, yet still let a lot of other people get in on the extra content.
Just a thought.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by WTG - Tom Green on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:28 am

I certainly don't mind people discussing whether they want to get the game or not, or why the kickstarter version may or may not be the better deal for what sellers are looking to get for it, or even ways in which the extras could be offered, but when people make comments such as "Hopefully, they will learn their lesson..." there are just too many implications behind such a statement that are not only highly inaccurate but more than a little condescending as well.

Let me make this one point perfectly clear. If we here at Watchtower Games had not offered these kickstarter items as exclusives we would not be in business.

There are a lot of armchair generals who like to think they know the publishing business. Unfortunately no matter how many games someone has bought or even actual kickstarter campaigns that someone has run, it's all just guesses without knowing the specific details of the production behind a specific game and the ins and outs of the business that is making it.

So as someone who has read all 3,214 comments ever posted to our kickstarter page, as someone who has posted hundreds upon hundreds of responses to those comments, as someone who has written 122 detailed updates during the kickstarter campaign, as someone who read and responded to the over 1,000 comments connected to those updates, as someone who has read AND responded to hundreds of kickstarter messages directed to Watchtower Games, as someone who has responded to hundreds of emails from backers, as someone who knows exactly the specifics of the production for Fallen, as someone who knows the company and financial details of Watchtower Games during the entire Kickstarter campaign back in mid 2013, as someone who has dealt with all the additional add-ons purchases during our two backer-kit windows and all the questions and emails connected to that process, and as someone who has dealt with countless backers asking about the specifics behind the elusiveness of the content before they bought into the campaign through all the sources listed above...I feel more than confident in writing the following:

Without offering the exclusives for Fallen:

- Fallen's kickstarter campaign would have been only a fraction of the success that it was
- There would have been no additional sales from the backer-kit add-on windows, as they would have never been offered
- Fallen would have been released only as the retail version you see with little, if any, extra content ever getting added to the kickstarter version
- Watchtower Games would have shut down its doors almost immediately after the kickstarter campaign ended (with enough support to get the orders fulfilled)

Would Watchtower Games offer exclusives for a new kickstarter campaign for a new game? I don't know. I'd have to measure where the company is at and more importantly, what is kickstarter like at that point. The world of board game campaigns on kickstarter is an ever evolving beast of expectations.

If I could go back in time to mid 2013, would I still offer exclusives for Fallen's campaign? Absolutely. Without hesitation. The support of our backers jumping into the exclusives kept our office doors open far, far longer than we ever expected. I'll take a run up to February 2015 and beyond over closing up shop back in July/August of 2013 any day.

So I would love to be able to offer the additional content if that was possible. I also think that the retail game of Fallen is a fantastic game for the price. And I am excited about the new content we have coming down the road. And more importantly, I am grateful that I even have the opportunity to work on new content...thanks to backers buying up our exclusive Fallen content way back when.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Ratdz on Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:06 am

Very well said. I am extremely excited to see what content we may see in the future!

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by jonsher on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:07 pm

Thanks for the informative response, Tom! It would be very helpful to people on the fence like me to get some idea of what we can expect down the road then. I was a definite sell until I saw how much I was missing out on. I'm in no way a completionist but the retail version sure feels lacking and not very replayable when compared to the KS version. If you can give us information (or point us in the right direction) on what we can expect in the future of Fallen, I'd be happy to help support Watchtower Games going forward, just as the original KS backers helped get you to this point.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by StormbringerGT on Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:28 am

As someone who has 50 games under their belt with the retail I have to disagree.

The retail package is very much complete and offers a TON of replay-ability. I've demo and played for probably over a 100 hours now and even when I do hit a story card I sorta remember I don't remember which choice leads to what sort of outcome.

There is a lot in there and when you factor in 30 story cards and 3 heroes and 3 DL then all the variations of their cards and level ups. Its a lot more than appears on paper.

This is my opinion as a fan. And our store where we play weekly has sold out a couple times on the game and play mats, and no has complained there about the content. Once you see it in action you realize all the different factors going on.

I can't speak for Tom or watchtower games but I'd bet my bottom dollar and hell my top dollar as well that they are hard at work developing more content to play with. I'm pretty sure they want to sell you more stuff to play with as much as you want to buy more stuff to play with.

Just my opinion but if anyone has played Fallen a ton with their retail content and wants to chime in, please do!

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by jonsher on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:02 am

Thank you StormbringerGT, it's good to see a different opinion. I've just heard mostly from a couple of retail buyers who said they love the game but are a little disappointed with the replayability. Maybe some of that disappointment was based on the retail vs KS version comparision as well. I may still wait to see some more information on Fallen's future (retail expansions or possibly another Kickstarter?) before I plunge in, but this game is quickly making it to the top of my must-buy list.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by StormbringerGT on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:32 am

I'd bet that if those people had never heard of the additional kick starter stuff, they would have no issues with the replay ability but once you know about it, it affects your line of thinking. As a huge fan I went ahead and bought the Kickstarter stuff, but when I demo and do open play I play only using the retail stuff.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

Post by Unisus on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:08 am

I think that's exactly the point - people here on the internet who find it on BGG or similar sources get all the infos about the KS edition. People finding the game in a store see just that - and if you only take the retail edition alone, it is a real gem.

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Re: On the exclusivity of the advanced characters

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